Committee Meetings

10:30, Friday 4 October 2024, videoconference

1/24 10:30 Welcome and apologies for absence

2/24 Declarations of interest

3/24 10:35 Minutes of the meeting held on 15 March 2024

4/24 10:40 Nature Based Solutions

Can water companies embrace nature to deliver a healthier water environment?

People are concerned about the impact of spills and discharges and want to see the health of our rivers, lakes and seas improving. Communities want to see water companies confront these issues, but in a way that is kind to the environment and embraces nature, rather than working against it. Is this possible? At this event we will be drawing upon our consumer research, as well as the insight and knowledge of water sector experts, to explore the role of nature-based solutions in tackling everything from flooding to pollution.

1. Archie Hill, Research Manager, CCW
   CCW will open the meeting with an overview of recent Nature Based Solutions research that and set the scene for the speakers that follow. Keen to go Green? Customer preferences and priorities for waste water solutions
2. Elliot Gill, Senior Technical Director/Market Sector Lead for Urban Drainage and Flooding (UK and Ireland), Stantec
   Stantec will talk about the challenges and opportunities of nature based solutions with reference to two publications:-
   • https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6182bad4e90e07197867ecd4/storm-overflows-evidence-project.pdf
   • https://ukwir.org/improved-understanding-of-retrofit-suds-whole-life-cost-carbon-and-delivery-to-enable-deployment
3. Dr Tom Lavers, technical lead on drainage and wastewater management plans, Environment Agency
   The EA will talk about what we can learn from nature-based solutions (NBS) pilot projects and the challenges to overcome to make NBS an everyday choice.
4. Zoe Frogbrook, Head of Environment and Sustainability, Northumbrian Water
   Northumbrian Water will talk about the approach it took to using nature based solution and the approaches it is planning to use, including its work on the Northumbrian Integrated Drainage Partnership.

5/24 12:20 Questions for CCW

To consider any questions from the audience for CCW.

6/24 12:25 Other business

to consider any other items of business.

7/24 Next meeting

The date of the next meeting of the Committee will be held at 10:30 on 21 March 2025.

Meeting close – 12:30

Attending:-

Committee: Mike Keil, Rachel Onikosi, Lisa Tennant, Rob Wilson (Chair), Rhodri Williams

Boardroom Apprentice: Sue Pitcher

10:30 on Friday 15 March 2024, by video conference

Present:-

Committee:-

• Mike Keil
• Rob Light, Chair
• Rachel Onikosi
• Lisa Tennant
• Rhodri Williams
• Rob Wilson

CCW:-

• Cath Jones, Head of Company Engagement
• Alison Townsend, Board Secretary

Speakers:-

• Wendy Marinos, Head of Consumer Delivery, CCW
• Craig Koch, Head of Insights, Huntswood
• Lisa Sweeney, Account Director, Huntswood
• Luke Wootton, Director of Client Relationships, Huntswood
• Natalie Freeman, Relationship Manager, DRO (Dispute Resolution Ombudsman)
• David Dagger, Director of Communications and Corporate Affairs, Institute of Customer Service

Delegates:-  

In addition to the participants set out above approximately 25 stakeholders were present at the meeting. 

8/23 Welcome and apologies for absence

8.1 The Chair welcomed everyone to the meeting.  There had been no apologies for absence.

9/23  Declarations of interest

9.1  There were no declarations of interest relevant to the matters before the Committee.

10/23 Minutes of the last meeting

10.1  The Committee agreed the minutes of its meeting held on 15 September 2023 as a true record.

11/23  Discussion: Striving for excellence in customer service

11.1  The Committee Chair briefly welcomed the speakers to the meeting and introduced the discussion session:-

(i)  Wendy Marinos, Head of Consumer Delivery, CCW

11.2 Wendy briefly explained that CCW had done a lot of work over the last year to transform itself into a centre of excellence for complaint handling in the water sector.  Wendy talked about two recent cases that had been handled by CCW:-

• CCW had accepted the first case as a formal investigation that had resulted in an apology and gesture of goodwill for the customer and had triggered training at the company.
• The second case presented was an example of a situation where CCW Had not been able to achieve any more for the customer; the customer was currently considering if they wished to proceed to arbitration.

11.3  The Committee discussed issues associated with the cases presented and noted that the importance of customer service and what the companies could have done differently to prevent the cases coming to CCW.

(ii)  Craig Koch, Head of Insights; Luke Wootton, Director of Client Relationships; Lisa Sweeney, Account Director – Huntswood

11.4  The Huntswood representatives briefly introduced the organisation and reflected on the recent decline in customer satisfaction in the water sector and the impact that this could have.  Huntswood moved on to give an overview of its 2022 Complaints Outlook report including:-

• the importance placed by customers on feeling valued;
• how getting complaints right first time impacted customer retention;
• the importance of proactively keeping customers updated; and
• the importance of saying sorry and setting clear customer expectations.

11.5 The Committee briefly discussed the issues raised in the presentation particularly:-

• if it was possible for a complaints journey to be successful if the outcome was not what the customer wanted. Huntswood suggested that if the customer felt valued, was treated with respect and was communicated with then this was entirely possibly;
• there was a recognition that while water customers couldn’t switch provider and so customer retention wasn’t an issue for water companies poor treatment could impact customer satisfaction scores. The Committee noted that organisations often saw an apology as an acknowledgement of fault but apologising that a customer has had to make contact can contribute to good case handling and be a positive regardless of the outcome;
• if Huntswood had seen differences in the key issues/complaints for the water sector compared to others. The Committee noted that metering and billing complaints were common across all utilities;
• if there was an understanding of the cost to companies of complaint handling. Huntswood advised that this was not included in the complaints survey but it was being explored with some water companies; and
• the potential impact of Artificial Intelligence (AI) on co plaint handling. The Committee noted that because complaints were an emotional subject human to human interaction was important, however, there could be a role for AI at the early stages of a complaint.

(iii)  Natalie Freeman, Relationship Manager, Dispute Resolution Ombudsman (DRO)

11.6 DRO explained that DRO had been providing an Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) service to the water sector since December 2023 and went on to give a presentation that gave an overview of the process including its origins, legal standing and the advantages of the model to both the customer and their supplier.  The presentation also included some early insights from the cases DRO had handled since it had been operating the ADR scheme for the sector and also learnings from other sectors.

11.7     The Committee went on to discuss issues raised in the presentation:-

• how ombudsman schemes were regulated, The Committee heard that DRO was a full member of the Ombudsman Association and that organisations had to meet Trading Standards criteria to be able to operate as an ombudsman;
• what proportion of customers didn’t accept the adjudication decision and so decided to take an alternative route. DRO advised that what happened to a complaint after adjudication was often unclear, however, it was planned to start gathering information on the acceptance of adjudications in the water sector.

(iv)  David Dagger, Director of Communications and Corporate Affairs, Institute of Customer Service (ICS)

11.8  David gave a short presentation that explored the importance of managing customer ‘pain points’ and key areas for improvement.  The Committee went on to discuss issues raised in the presentation including:-

• how an environment where customer service was a valued profession could be created. The Committee noted that this ambition was at the core of ICS and heard how it wanted company boards to see customer service as a business imperative;
• the concept of the customer service dividend and how good customer service could increase profitability. There was a recognition that the impact was less marked in utilities where customers couldn’t change supplier.

11.9  The Chair briefly reflected on the presentations and thanked all of the speakers for their time.

12/23 Questions to CCW

12.1  There were no questions for CCW from those present.

13/23  Other Business

13.1  No items of other business were raised.

14/23  Next meeting

14.1  The next Committee meeting would be at 10:30 on Friday 4 October 2024.

The meeting closed at 12:25

10:30, Friday 15 March 2024, videoconference

NOTE: simultaneous Welsh to English translation will be available for this meeting.

8/23 10:30 Welcome and apologies for absence

9/23 Declarations of interest

10/23 10:35 Minutes of the meeting held on 15 September 2023

11/23 10:40 Striving for excellence in customer service

All of us rely on water and sewerage services but not everyone experiences excellent customer service when things go wrong.  At this event we’ll be examining what excellent customer service should look like in water through absorbing insights and lessons learned from other utilities and sectors.

We’ll also be drawing upon our own wealth of expertise as well as the Dispute Resolution Ombudsman. They will discuss the complaint trends and common causes and fixes that can prevent problems from escalating. Other guest speakers will also help to spark ideas from the world of energy and complaint resolution.

(1) Wendy Marinos, Head of Consumer Delivery, CCW.
CCW will open the meeting with an overview of recent customer cases and bring the direct experience of the water consumer to the event.

(2) Craig Koch, Head of Insights; Luke Wootton, Director of Client Relationships; Lisa Sweeney, Account Director – Huntswood.
Craig will be talking us through the insight in Huntswood’s 2022 Complaints Outlook report, which delved into the emotional impact good and bad customer journeys have on people. They will look at how a positive journey can leave customers feeling valued and being brand advocates. They’ll also give us some insight into the upcoming 2024 Complaints Outlook report.

(3) Judith Turner, Deputy Chief Ombudsman and Natalie Freeman, Relationship Manager
Dispute Resolution Ombudsman (DRO).
DRO provides adjudication and mediation across a wide range of industries. Judith will talk to us about what, in their experience, causes complaints to escalate to this level and what we could learn from other sectors to get them resolved sooner.

(4) (4) David Dagger, Director of Communications and Corporate Affairs, Institute of Customer Service
David will talk to us about managing customer pain points in times of trouble; how using technology can be vital in a crisis – but be wary of digital exclusion; and how good customer service can be a driver of value for businesses. It can also be the thing that saves a business when things go wrong.

12/23 12:20 Questions for CCW

To consider any questions from the audience for CCW.

13/23 12:25 Other business

To consider any other items of business.

14/23 next meeting

The next meeting will be at 10:30 on 4 October 2024.

Meeting close – 12:30

Attending:-

Committee: Mike Keil, Rob Light (Chair), Rachel Onikosi, Lisa Tennent, Rhodri Williams

Boardroom Apprentice: Sue Pitcher

CCW: Cath Jones, Alison Townsend, John Vinson

Delegates: as registered

10:30 on Friday 15 September 2023, by video conference

Present:-

Committee:-

• Rob Light, Chair
• Rachel Onikosi
• Lisa Tennant
• Rob Wilson

CCW:-

• Mike Keil, Senior Director of Policy, Research and Campaigning
• Alison Townsend, Board Secretary

Speakers:-

• Tom Andrewarther, Customer Strategy and Campaign Delivery Manager, Northumbrian Water
• Jim Barker, Head of Water Resources, Portsmouth Water
• Caroline Cadman, Director of Natural Resources, South West Water
• James Hargrave, Regional Leakage Operations Manager, Anglian Water
• Jonathan Haskins, Director of Regulatory Delivery, Compliance and Reporting, Thames Water

Delegates:- In addition to the participants set out above approximately 25 stakeholders and CCW employees were present at the meeting. 

Welcome and apologies for absence

The Chair welcomed everyone to the meeting of the Committee for England and reported that Emma Clancy would be leaving CCW at the end of September; Mike Keil would be CCW’s Interim Chief Executive from 2 October 2023.

Apologies for absence had been received from Alison Austin and Emma Clancy.

Declarations of interest

There were no declarations of interest relevant to the matters before the Committee.  Rob Wilson reported that he had been appointed Deputy Chair of the Social Mobility Commission from October 2023.

Minutes of the last meeting

The Committee agreed the minutes of its meeting held on 17 March 2023 as a true record.

Discussion: Is the water sector making the right choices? Are we making the right choices when it comes to keeping our taps running?

The Committee received a brief introduction to the session.  An increase in demand for water was being seen and was driven by many factors for example population growth, the use of more appliances and power showers.  The speakers would explore some of the options to address the supply/demand gap:-

Jim Barker, Portsmouth Water – Havant Thicket Reservoir

Jim gave a short overview of the project currently underway to create a new winter storage reservoir at Havant Thicket.  The new reservoir would enable water to be supplied to Southern Water during dry periods so that it could reduce its extraction from the rivers Test and Itchen.  The Committee noted that the reservoir alone would not solve the water resources issue in the area.  The heard that the site of the reservoir included some ancient woodland and the reservoir had been designed to minimise the amount of woodland lost. The Committee heard about other actions being taken to minimise the environmental damage of the scheme including rewilding.

The Committee discussed issues associated with the presentation including:-

• Why it wasn’t planned to use the reservoir more regularly. The Committee heard that water companies were required to plan for a 1 in 20 year drought and the new reservoir was an emergency measure to satisfy that requirement.  The reservoir would take three years to fill and using it on a more regular basis could mean the resource would not be available when required.  The Committee asked if there were sufficient resources for the other 19 years and noted that there would be a focus on demand management, leakage reduction and changes to the network to balance supply and demand over the next 10 years; and
• If, in the event that the required reductions in consumption were not achieved, the reservoir could be used to supplement supplies. The Committee heard that other fall-back plans were in place to be used in this situation, in addition, Water Resources Management Plans that were used to plan for were regularly being refreshed and were formally reviewed every five years.

Carolyn Cadman, South West Water – nature based solutions

Carolyn gave a short presentation about work that South West Water (SWW) to explore how farmers and landowners in the South West could be encouraged to retain water on their land for flood management and to develop a grid of ponds or ‘water batteries’ that could be used by the farmers or traded with other farmers or water companies in times of need.  The Committee noted that the project supplemented other activities including bringing former quarries into use for water storage.

The Committee discussed issues associated with the presentation including:-

• If the ponds proposed had any specific features. The Committee heard that research was underway to look at the design of the ponds but the hypothesis was that ponds would be in three parts, one that was full, one that was empty to be used for flood management and a third that was moveable;
• What the reaction of farmers/landowners to the plans had been. The Committee heard that c120 enquiries had been received or which c20 had been from farmers.  The initiative had been discussed with Defra and it fitted with some if its environmental ambitions;
• If the interest from farmers was related to resilience/self-supply or trading. The Committee noted that initial interest had been around the potential to reduce costs as a result of storage and self-supply although the wider benefits were recognised;
• The timescales for the delivery of the work. SWW indicated that the learning should be completed in time to influence the planning for AMP9.

Tom Andrewartha, Northumbrian Water – water literacy

Tom spoke to the Committee about the Water Literacy programme that was being led by Northumbrian Water (NW) in partnership with Groundwork and Waterwise.  The programme would plug the knowledge gap to help citizens understand how they can reduce their water use.  The project would deliver 2,000 accredited water literate learners who would in turn influence their own networks and contacts.  The Committee noted that the programme was currently focussed on key stakeholders and so was not public facing but could be in time.

The Committee discussed issues associated with the presentation including:-

• How the project’s success would be measured. The programme was partnering with University of Denver to help measure success although it was recognised that it would not be easy to measure the impact; it was hoped that the programme would be the foundation for further action;
• How attitudes to behaviour change might be changed. There was a recognition that water touched many aspects of an individual’s life which brought a challenging complexity to influencing behaviour change; a lot of people considered their water use a private matter.  There was an acknowledgment that behaviour change was a long term collaborative journey;
• If the use of cubic metres as a measure of consumption on water bills made it difficult for consumers to link their behaviour with references to savings measured in litres of water. The Committee heard that NW now billed its customers in litres; the need for consistent language was recognised.

James Hargrave, Anglian Water – leakage reduction

James an overview of work by Anglian Water (AW) work to detect and reduce leakage.  The Committee heard how AW had invested in new technology such as satellite leak detection and sniffer dogs.  The Committee also heard about the use of smart meters could help detect internal leaks or those on private supply pipes and also how this provided real time information for customers on their water usage.

The Committee discussed issues associated with the presentation including:-

• The leakage reduction achieved by AW. The Committee noted that this was approximately 25% since the beginning of 2000/AMP3; the reduction was in the context of, and measured against, a growing network;
• How AW compared to other companies for leakage reduction. The Committee was advised that AW was currently a frontier performer and leading performer per kilometre of pipe.  James explained that AW had invested heavily in tacking leakage and while it’s region had suffered in the 2023 drought it had not been necessary to introduce temporary use bans; there were clear links between this situation and leakage reduction.  James also explained that AW had experienced an increase in leakage during 2023 as a result of the drought and associated ground movement but had been able to tackle this efficiently because of the investments already made, eg satellite and drone technology.

Jonathan Haskins, Thames Water – Desalination

Jonathan explained that the desalination process removed mineral salts from water so that it could be consumed; the process was most commonly used in the Middle East and USA.  The Thames Gateway Water Treatment Works used the reverse osmosis system to remove dissolved mineral salts from salt and saline water making them suitable for consumption.  While the reverse osmosis system had a lower energy demand than other desalination techniques it remained an energy intensive process.  The Committee noted that customers could sometimes detect desalinated water and so it was blended with other water to reduce this risk.  When operating at full capacity the plant could meet 5% of London’s demand for water; desalination was not a long term water resource solution but could supplement supplies in times of high demands or when resilience issues were experienced.

The Committee discussed issues associated with the presentation including:-

• If the plant could be run at the design capacity. The Committee heard that plant could not currently run at its design capacity of 250Ml/day and that it was more sustainable to run at 100 to 150Ml/day; and
• If it was likely that desalination would be the preferred option if the decision to build the plant were taken in 2023. James, indicated that his personal view was that other solutions could offer better value for money, for example leakage reduction.  The use of different solutions, for example leakage reduction/behaviour change in relation to water use/new reservoirs used in combination would be key.

After all the presentations had been discussed the Committee went on to reflect on what it had heard and recognised that leakage reduction would need to be a key priority for all companies.  The Committee asked if companies could do anything to help customers reduce their usage and was advised that Anglian had previously given away items to households but had found that this alone had limited impact; coupled with initiatives such as smart metering the impact was likely to be more significant.  There was a recognition that behaviour change was needed to underpin demand reduction and the precise solution would vary between companies.

The Chair brought the discussion to a close and thanked everyone present for joining the meeting and contributing to the discussion.

Questions to CCW

There were no questions for CCW from those present.

Other Business

No items of other business were raised.

Next meeting

The next Committee meeting would be at 10:30 on Friday 15 March 2024.

The meeting closed at 12:55

10:30, Friday 15 September 2023 by video conference

10:30 – Welcome and apologies for absence

Declarations of interest

10:35 – Minutes of the meeting held on 17 March 2023 (can be found in the next drop down option on this page)

10:40 – Is the water sector making the right choices?

Climate of change: Are we making the right choices when it comes to keeping our taps running?

Last year’s scorching summer and resulting drought sparked a heated debate on how we can keep taps flowing in the face of climate change. In this session we will hear from water companies on the solutions they are exploring before exploring whether the sector is making the right choices.

1. Jim Barker, Head of Water Resources, Portsmouth Water
   Perhaps the first idea that springs to mind is for us to store more water so there is more available for use. Jim, project director for the first reservoir built in England in 30 years, will talk us through the benefits, timescales and work that needs to be undertaken to protect the environment in the construction of a new reservoir.
2. Carolyn Cadman, Director of Natural Resources, South West Water
   As well as engineering solutions like building reservoirs, there are solutions that work with nature to store more water. Carolyn is leading an innovative project in the South West, working with farmers to store more water on their land, to improve resilience for them, wider society and rivers. Carolyn will tell us about how this project benefits both people and the environment.
3. Tom Andrewartha, Customer Strategy and Campaign Delivery Manager, Northumbrian Water
   We can all play a part in addressing the gap between supply and demand, by using water wisely. That can be easier said than done. Lots of us are not really aware of how much water we use day to day, or how we can use less of it without having to make big sacrifices and lifestyle changes. Tom will talk to us about the water literacy campaign he’s running, and how that can help us all to use water wisely day to day.
4. James Hargrave, Regional Leakage Operations Manager, Anglian Water
   Companies keeping the water we have in their networks, not losing it through leaks is something we know people feel passionate about. James will talk to us about the priority fixing leaks has been given by Anglian Water and how it has successfully managed to find and fix them, even in 2022’s challenging conditions.
5. Jonathan Haskins, Director of Regulatory Delivery, Compliance and Reporting, Thames Water
   Awareness of desalination technology, which turns sea water into drinking water, is on the increase. Jon will talk to us about the benefits but also the drawbacks of desalination, and how it can play a part in addressing the supply demand gap.

12:20 – Questions for CCW

To consider any questions from the audience for CCW.

12:25 – Other business

To consider any other items of business.

Next meeting

The date of the next meeting of the Committee will be held at 10:30 on 15 March 2024

Attending will be:

Committee: Alison Austin, Emma Clancy (apologies), Rob Light (Chair), Rachel Onikosi, Lisa Tennant, Rob Wilson, Rhodri Williams

CCW: Cath Jones, Mike Keil, Alison Townsend, John Vinson

Meeting closed at 12:30

10:30 on Friday 17 March 2023 by video conference

Present:

Committee:

• Alison Austin
• Rob Light, Chair
• Rachel Onikosi
• Lisa Tennant
• Rhodri Williams
• Rob Wilson

CCW:

• Mike Keil, Senior Director of Policy, Research and Campaigning
• Alison Townsend, Board Secretary

Speakers:

• Jason Herbert, Financial Inclusion Lead, Trussell Trust
• Sarah Murphy, Senior Health, Social Care & Welfare Systems Strategy Lead, Money and Pensions Service
• Janine Shackleton, Policy Manager – Social Policy, CCW
• Kevin Shaw, Senior Creditor Strategy Manager, Money and Pensions Service
• Alexis Stevens, Senior Strategic Partnerships Officer Money and Mental Health Policy Institute
• Paul Walmsley, Energy Relationship Manager, Christians against Poverty

Delegates: In addition to the participants set out above approximately 35 stakeholders and CCW employees were present at the meeting.

Welcome and apologies for absence

The Chair welcomed everyone to the second meeting of the Committee for England.

Apologies for absence had been received from Emma Clancy.

Declarations of interest

There were no declarations of interest

Minutes of the last meeting

The Committee agreed the minutes of its meeting held on 30 September 2022 as a true record.

Discussion: Money on Your Mind

The Chair introduced the discussion topic “Money on Your Mind” and explained that the speakers and discussions arising from them would be exploring how the cost of living crisis impacts our mental health, how to break the cycle and the water sector’s role in supporting its customers in this area.

The Committee initially heard from two speakers.

Janine Shackleton, CCW

Janine gave a brief introduction to the topic, outlined the relationship between financial difficulty and mental health and how the current cost of living crisis was affecting both of these areas. The Committee heard that the water sector currently offered a range of support; key themes within included effective support to help those struggling to pay; improving access to and awareness of the support and having policies and procedures in place that underpin a compassionate response to customers.

Alexis Stevens , Money and Mental Health Policy Institute

Alexis gave a brief overview of the Money and Mental Health Policy Institute (MAMH) and went on to explain the links between financial difficulties and increases in mental health difficulties. The importance of good communication that was well timed and sensitive in supporting individuals with mental health problems was emphasised. MAMH suggested that utility suppliers were in a unique position to understand the financial position of their customers and impact their situation.

The Chair opened a short discussion that included:

• the need for companies to be able to recognise isolation wherever regardless of the customer’s location;
• the impact of mental health on behaviours. The Committee heard about the importance of being able to pick up on signs such as shorter attention spans and noted how a supportive, empathetic company culture contributed to this and being able to support customers appropriately;
• the need for companies to support their staff including senior staff. MAMH explained that when they assessed organisations this included an assessment of the care provided for staff including senior staff; and
• if the funds available in the water company support schemes were being fully utilised. The Board was advised that while this varied between companies CCW was seeing an increasing number of companies consulting customers to increase the funding available as schemes were reaching capacity. A water company representative explained that as a company reaching the capacity of its scheme it had asked customers if they were willing to provide more support. The majority of customers had agreed to provide support at the highest level; there was a sense that customers saw that they were ‘all in this together’. The Committee noted that companies would be testing their PR24 business plans with customers shortly which would include this topic.

The Committee heard from three further speakers:

Paul Walmsley, Christians Against Poverty

Paul gave an overview of how Christians Against Poverty (CAP) saw people coping in the current cost of living crisis including the factors that contributed to the current situation including Covid19, the war in Ukraine and rising interest rates and inflation. The Committee heard that in every month in 2022 CAP had seen an increase in calls to its helpline and a 135% in requests for fuel vouchers between September 2021 and September 2022. Reported safeguarding incidents had increased from 5 per month pre pandemic to 90 per month in the previous 3 month period. The Committee noted that challenges were increasing across the not for profit sector and the solutions previously used to support clients such as support tariffs were not enough now.

Sarah Murphy/Kevin Shaw, Money & Pension Service

The Committee heard about a research report recently published by the Money and Pension Service (MPS) that explored the intersecting impacts of mental ill health on the financial wellbeing of people from minority ethnic groups. The research had found that financial difficulties experienced by people from ethnic minority communities were often due to difficulties finding good quality work, challenges with the welfare benefits system, additional costs specific to their communities for example costs of particular food or to support family members and individuals turning to high cost or illegal credit to make ends meet. The report recommended better use of data, provision of Interpreting and translation services and more focus in Community partnership working to help address the problem.

MPS had also carried out research in relation to debt advice and money guidance and had identified a large group of people at risk of slipping into debt for whom guidance would be helpful. MPS was seeing an increase in the number of people contacting it for debt advice.

Jason Herbert, Trussell Trust

Jason talked about the work carried out by the Trussell Trust (TT) and explained that its long term ambition was for the removal of food banks. The Committee noted that 60% of foodbanks offered financial inclusion services at a local level. The heard about the outcomes achieved by TT in 2022/23 and noted that, similarly to CAP (see above), it was seeing an increasing number of cases where the advice couldn’t achieve the desired outcome. The Committee noted that TT had developed joined up working with CAB and Mind and heard how water companies could support people including by offering reasonable adjustments for people with mental health challenges and ensuring that Ofwat’s “paying Fair” guidelines around mental health were fully followed.

The Chair thanked the presenters and opened a discussion that included:

• If the move to focussing communications online meant that some people were excluded. The Committee heard that water companies gained additional valuable information on a customer’s situation when they met them in their homes and could understand their particular situation.  While digital communication worked for the majority of people there would always be a subset that had different needs.  MAMH indicated that they had found that people with mental health difficulties often had a preference for digital engagement although the service needed to be accessible and intuitive to work properly.
• How individuals could be supported to take responsibility for their situation. The Committee heard how support frameworks could help individuals but noted that in the current financial situation problems were often multi layered and were more difficult to resolve. The Committee heard that 25% of people supported by CAP had waited three years for advice; the biggest step was often making the call to access support. CAP suggested that a cultural shift to recognise that it’s OK not to be good with money was needed. MPS explained that it was doing work around financial literacy and the potential inclusion of this in the curriculum.

The Chair brought the discussion to a close and thanked everyone present for joining the meeting and contributing to the discussion.

Questions to CCW

There were no questions for CCW from those present.

Other Business

No items of other business were raised.

Next meeting

The next Committee meeting would be at 10:30 on Friday 15 September 2023.

The meeting closed at 12:30

10:30, Friday 17 March 2023 by video conference

10:30: Welcome and apologies for absence
Declarations of interest

10:35: Minutes of the meeting held on 30 September 2022

10:40 Money on your Mind: Exploring how the cost of living crisis impacts our mental health

Financial worries are weighing heavily on the minds of more people and poor mental health can make it harder to earn and manage money, as well as seek help. How can we break this cycle and what role does the water sector have in helping customers?

These are the themes we’ll be exploring during this public meeting.

Our speakers are:- (10 mins each)

1. CCW – Janine Shackleton, Policy Manager – Social Policy
2. Money and Mental Health Policy Institute – Alexis Stevens, Senior Strategic Partnerships Officer discussion
3. Christians Against Poverty – Paul Walmsley, Energy Relationship Manager
4. Money and Pensions Service – Sarah Murphy, Senior Health, Social Care & Welfare Systems Strategy Lead/Kevin Shaw Senior Creditor Strategy Manager
5. Trussell Trust – Jason Herbert, Financial Inclusion Lead discussion

12:20: Questions for CCW – to consider any questions from the audience for CCW.

12:25: Other business – to consider any other items of business.

Next meeting – The date of the next meeting of the Committee will be held at 10:30 on 15 September 2023

Meeting close – 12:30

Attending:-
Committee: Alison Austin, Emma Clancy, Rob Light (Chair), Rachel Onikosi, Lisa Tennant, Rob Wilson, Rhodri Williams
CCW: Mike Keil, Janine Shackleton, Alison Townsend

10:30 on Friday 30 September 2022 by video conference

Present:-

• Committee:- Alison Austin
• Emma Clancy
• Rob Light, Chair
• Rachel Onikosi
• Rob Wilson

CCW:

• Amanda Caton, Executive Head of Communications
• Alison Townsend, Board Secretary

Speakers:

• Christine Colvin, Director for Advocacy & Engagement, Rivers Trust
• Anne Dacey, Deputy Director Water Management and Investment,
  Environment Agency
• Mike Keil, Senior Director of Policy, Research and Campaigning
• Ryan McClure, Royal College Arts
• Charles Rangeley Wilson, Chair, CABA Chalk Streams Restoration
  Group
• Matt Wheeldon, Director of Assets and Compliance, Wessex Water

Delegates: In addition to the participants set out above approximately 30
stakeholders and CCW employees were present at the meeting.

1/22 Welcome and apologies for absence

1.1 The Chair welcomed everyone to the second meeting of the Committee for
England.

1.2 There were no apologies for absence.

2/22 Declarations of interest

2.1 There were no declarations of interest.

3/22 Minutes of the last meeting

3.1 The Committee agreed the minutes of its meeting held on 18 February 2022 as a true record.

4/22 Environmental Transparency

4.1 The Chair introduced the discussion topic “Environmental Transparency” and noted the increasing focus on this matter.

4.2 The Committee initially heard from three speakers on the subject of environmental transparency:-

Mike Keil, CCW Mike gave a brief introduction to the topic and made reference to the current focus on transparency around Combined Sewer Overflow (CSO) discharges and argued that transparency should be wider and include eg river quality, water resources, sustainability and carbon emissions. Mike went on to explore the benefits of transparency including how it can drive innovation, inform debate and build trust in those providing a service. The Committee noted that CCW’s Water Matters tracker showed that trust in water companies was at an eight year low. Low levels of trust also impacted the willingness of customers to contact their company for help, this type of contact was increasingly important in the current cost of living crisis. Because people used water in different ways and for different purposes the need to listen and understand their needs was crucial when designing systems to provide information.

Christine Colvin, Rivers Trust Christine referred to the House of Commons
Environmental Audit Committee Report Water Quality on Rivers that had been published earlier that year and had highlighted multiple failures impacting river water quality. Christine suggested that the lack of transparency on water quality had contributed to the current crisis of confidence in the industry. The Committee heard about the work that Rivers Trust had been doing to make information available to the public and showed how EA data was presented on the Rivers Trust website; while the data was not in real time it had helped improve the understanding of the public about river quality. Christine went on to explain how information empowered individuals to take informed decisions and contribute to the response to environmental problems.

Ryan McClure, Wateraware Collective Ryan’s presentation explore how data and evidence could be used to call for change and also to enable individuals to take informed decisions. Ryan talked about a number of pieces of work and initiatives that he had been involved in including the development of London Underground style may of London Rivers showing the quality of those rivers and activities taking place on and around them. Ryan went on to talk about a
device that he had developed that could be carried by a kayak that could take
real time water quality samples and readings that linked with GPS and could
share the data in real time. The Committee heard how accurate and transparent data could enable people to confidently engage with the natural
world.

4.3 The Chair thanked the presenters and opened a discussion that explored
organisations engaged with communities, there was a recognition that
conversations needed to be accessible. The Committee heard about Northumbrian Water’s ‘Water Rangers’ initiative and how this had engaged people with their local environment. There was a recognition that a single solution was unlikely as people will be interested in different issues, for example an individual might have no interest on the environment but could be interested in water efficiency advice in order to save money. Transparency alone was unlikely to solve all of the problems.

4.4 The Committee heard from three further speakers on the topic:-

Anne Dacey, Environment Agency Anne explained why data and evidence was
crucial to protecting the environment noting that it supports conversations and underpins good regulation. The Committee heard how data enables the EA to work with water companies to improve and underpinned the EA’s activities.

Anne recognised that there was work to do to get more meaningful data to
people and this would enable the sector to gain the trust of the public.

Charles Rangeley-Wilson, Chalk Stream Restoration Group Charles explored
the development of water related action groups, the drivers for calls to action.
Charles argued that the need to provide safe clean water to water stressed areas put pressure on the environment and that public support for infrastructure investment to address this would be impossible to achieve without sharing information and data to generate debate.

Matt Wheeldon, Wessex Water Matt referred to the Water UK report 21st
Century Rivers: Ten Actions for Change that had called for the water industry to work towards a single national platform that for timely multi-source data for all rivers. The Committee noted that some off the reporting, particularly aspects that affect public health, the data was slow to obtain but nevertheless people should be provided sufficient with data to make their own risk based decisions.

Wessex Water was looking into the potential to utilise Artificial Intelligence to
predict changes in water quality.

4.5 The Chair thanked the presenters and opened a discussion that included:-

• how CCW’s People and the Environment Programme was helping people make connections with the environment and the issues faced. The Committee heard how solutions to water resource problems will depend on managing demand; CCW’s work aimed to make the initial link between action and outcome to begin the drive for change.
• if demand management initiatives were less successful in more affluent areas that were less cost sensitive. It was suggested there was a need for top down communications to drive this change.

4.6 The Chair thanked everyone present for joining the meeting and contributing to the discussion and commented that the session had demonstrated the need for more consistent and accessible data.

5/22 Questions to CCW – There were no questions for CCW from those present.

6/21 Other Business – No items of other business were raised.

7/21 Next meeting

7.1 The next Committee meeting would be at 10:30 on Friday 17 March 2023.

The meeting closed at 12:30

10:30, Friday 30 September 2022 by videoconference

10:30 Welcome and apologies for absence

Declarations of interest

10:35: Minutes of the meeting held on 18 February 2022

10:40 Discussion topic – Environmental transparency: communicating with people

Transparency on environmental performance has never been more important to help inform and empower people and to build trust that our rivers, streams and beaches are being treated with the care they require to thrive.

This event examines how environmental performance in the water sector is communicated with people, particularly on river water quality and water scarcity.

At this meeting we will hear from a range of speakers to explore what information people want about their local water environment, what role communities are already playing in this area and consider what good looks like in terms of communicating environmental performance.

Our speakers are:- (10 mins each)

1. Mike Keil, Senior Director of Policy, Research and Campaigns, CCW
2. Anne Dacey, Deputy Director Water Management and Investment, Environment Agency
3. Christine Colvin, Director for Advocacy & Engagement, Rivers Trust
4. Charles Rangeley Wilson, Chair, CABA Chalk Streams Restoration Group
5. Ryan McClure, Royal College Arts
6. Matt Wheeldon, Director of Assets and Compliance, Wessex Water

Open for fuller discussion

12:20: Questions for CCW – To consider any questions from the audience for CCW.

12:25 Other business – to consider any other items of business.

The date of the next meeting of the Committee will be held at 10:30 on 17 February 2023

Meeting close at 12:30

Attending:-

Committee:

• Alison Austin,
• Emma Clancy,
• Rob Light (Chair),
• Rachel Onikosi,
• Lisa Tennant,
• Rob Wilson,
• Rhodri Williams

CCW:

• Amanda Caton,
• Karen Gibbs,
• Steve Grebby,
• Mike Keil,
• Alison Townsend

14:00 on Friday 18 February 2022 by video conference

Committee:

• Alison Austin
• Emma Clancy
• Rob Light, Chair
• Rachel Onikosi
• Rob Wilson

CCW:

• Amanda Caton, Executive Head of Communications
• Ellen Jones, Campaigns and Engagement Manager
• Mike Keil, Director of Policy, Research and Campaigns
• Janine Shackleton, Policy Manager
• Alison Townsend, Board Secretary

Speakers:

• Morgan Bestwick, Joseph Rowntree Foundation
• Jess Cook, National Energy Action
• Kruti Patel, Defra

Delegates: In addition to the participants set out above approximately 35
stakeholders were present at the meeting.

Welcome and apologies for absence

• The Chair welcomed everyone to the second meeting of the Committee for England.
• Apologies for absence had been received from Lisa Tennant and Rhodri Williams.

Declarations of interest – There were no declarations of interest.

Minutes of the last meeting – The Committee agreed the minutes of its meeting held on 1 October 2021 as a true record.

Water Affordability – The Chair introduced the discussion topic “Water Affordability” and noted the increasing importance of this matter in the context of the current cost of living crisis.

The Committee noted that CCW had led an independent review of water
affordability in 2021 that had made 10 recommendations that covered a wide range of actions that water companies could take to help customers struggling to afford their bills.

The Committee initially heard from two speakers:

• Kruti Patel, Defra, gave a short update that outlined the importance of water, measures that had been taken to date to protect water customers to date, including preventing water companies terminating supply to customers in debt, and looked at options for a Single Social Tariff (SST) noting there was a commitment from the sector to supporting customers. Kruti went on to outline plans for a consultation on the principles underpinning the SST that had been recommended in the independent review of water affordability.
• Mike Keil, CCW, gave a short presentation that reflected on the previous twelve months since the independent review of water affordability had been published. Mike explained that the recommendations made by the review, even excluding the SST, had the potential to make a huge different to customers in water poverty. The Committee heard that recent research had found there was strong public support for support to people that were struggling to pay their water bills and that there was greater support for help for those who need it most wherever they live rather than in the same water company region. The Committee noted that support to energy customers was complicated and the
  outputs from the affordability review were an opportunity to create a simple system for water consumers.

The Chair thanked the presenters and opened a discussion that covered:

• how customers that received support from existing social tariffs but became ineligible under the proposed scheme would be supported. The Committee was advised that there was a recognition that transitional arrangements would need to be explored to cover this situation;
• how customers of companies that were nearing capacity in their current
  schemes might be supported. CCW explained that it encouraged companies in this situation to speak to CCW to explore options and emphasised that companies should also examine alternative ways of funding their current schemes;
• recognising that it was likely that individuals unable to afford water would also be unable to afford other utilities, if there was co-ordination across Government to make it easier to obtain support. The Committee was advised that cross Government work was underway at a senior level on matters associated with the cost of living/poverty, however, there was a need to recognise that it was often difficult/time consuming to achieve cross Government support and so work was progressing to consult on the SST principles to avoid the scheme becoming unnecessarily delayed;
• noting that a General Election was likely in 2024, if new Government could affect progress with the SST. The Committee was advised that the primary legislation proposed would give powers to the Secretary of State to create a SST scheme. While it was not possible to predict what would happen, it was considered that the proposal for a SST was one that all parties and future Government would support.

The Committee heard from two further speakers:

• Jess Cook, National Energy Action talked about the current energy crisis and the price impact on customers. The Committee heard that domestic fuel prices were expected to rise further in the autumn and that customers were also impacted by increases in the cost of petrol, the removal of the uplift in Universal Credit and increases in property prices.
• Morgan Bestwick, Joseph Rowntree Foundation talked about the current issues driving and exacerbating poverty which included rising housing costs, falling values of benefits and rising cost of living. Morgan went on to outline actions being called for by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation to address issues including the creation of good jobs and decent affordable homes.

The Chair thanked the presenters and opened a discussion that included:-

• why the tariff for prepayment energy meters, which were often used by more vulnerable customers, were higher. The Committee was advised that this was justified by the fact that the cost to serve these customers was higher; and
• if even if water was made more affordable/more consistent support was in place there would still be people for whom water would be unaffordable. There was a recognition that there was a potential this situation could arise but the provision of a range of support for people that were falling into debt had significant benefits to those customers.

The Chair everyone present for joining the meeting their contribution to the discussion.

Questions to CCW – There were no questions for CCW from those present.

Other Business – No items of other business were raised.

Next meeting – The next Committee meeting would be at 10:30 on Friday 20 September 2022.

The meeting closed at 15:40

14:00, Friday 18 February 2022 by video conference

14:00: Welcome and apologies for absence

Declarations of interest

14:05: Minutes of the meeting held on 1 October 2021

14:10: Discussion topic ‘Water Affordability’

1.5 million households are still in water poverty in England and Wales – this number is likely to increase as the cost of living rises and the financial effects of Covid-19 continue to be felt.

At this event, we reflect on what’s changed in the 12 months since we carried out an Independent Review of Water Affordability, and explore why now is the right time to take the necessary steps to end water poverty for those struggling to pay their water bills in England and Wales.

Our speakers are:

1. Kruti Patel, Defra
2. Mike Keil, CCW
3. Jess Cook, National Energy Action
4. Morgan Bestwick, Joseph Rowntree Foundation

After we have heard from the first two speakers the Chair will open the meeting up for an initial discussion on the issues raised. There will be a second discussion session after we have heard from all of the speakers.

15:40:  Questions for CCW – to consider any questions from the audience for CCW.

15:50: Other business – to consider any other items of business.

The date of the next meeting of the Committee will be confirmed shortly.

Meeting close – 16:00

Attending:

Committee:

• Alison Austin,
• Emma Clancy,
• Rob Light (Chair),
• Rachel Onikosi,
• Lisa Tennant,
• Rob Wilson,
• Rhodri Williams

CCW:

• Amanda Caton,
• Ellen Jones,
• Mike Keil,
• Janine Shakleton,
• Alison Townsend

10:30, Friday 11 October 2024, videoconference

NOTE: simultaneous Welsh to English translation will be available for this meeting.

1/23 10:30 Welcome and apologies for absence

2/23 Declarations of interest

3/23 10:35 Minutes of the meeting held on 8 March 2024

4/23 10:40 Nature based solutions

Can water companies embrace nature to deliver a healthier water environment?

People are concerned about the impact of spills and discharges and want to see the health of our rivers, lakes and seas improving. Communities want to see water companies confront these issues, but in a way that is kind to the environment and embraces nature, rather than working against it. Is this possible? At this event we will be drawing upon our consumer research, as well as the insight and knowledge of water sector experts, to explore the role of nature-based solutions in tackling everything from flooding to pollution.

1. Steve Grebby, Policy Manager, CCW
   CCW will open the meeting with an overview of recent NBS research that and set the scene for the speakers that follow. Keen to go Green? Customer preferences and priorities for waste water solutions
2. Elliot Gill, Senior Technical Director/Market Sector Lead for Urban Drainage and Flooding (UK and Ireland), Stantec
   Stantec will talk about the challenges and opportunities of nature based solutions with reference to two publications:-
   • https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6182bad4e90e07197867ecd4/storm-overflows-evidence-project.pdf
   • https://ukwir.org/improved-understanding-of-retrofit-suds-whole-life-cost-carbon-and-delivery-to-enable-deployment
3. Jon Pike, Senior Site Manager, RSPB & Jason Rogers, Head of Water Quality and Environment, Hafren Dyfrdwy
   Jon & Jason will speak about Hafren Dyfrdwy’s partnerhip working at Lake Vyrnwy with the RSPB and the nature based solutions that were employed.

12:20 Questions for CCW

To consider any questions from the audience for CCW.

5/23 12:25 Other business

To consider any other items of business.

6/23 Next meeting

The next meeting of the Committee will be at 10:30 on Friday 14 March 2025.

Meeting close – 12:30

Attending:-

Committee: Bev Keogh, Mike Keil, Lisa Tennant, Rhodri Williams (Chair), Rob Wilson

CCW: Jenny Suggate, Lia Moutselou, Alison Townsend, John Vinson

Delegates: as registered

Speakers: as set out above

10:30, Friday 8 March 2024, videoconference

NOTE: simultaneous Welsh to English translation will be available for this meeting.

8/23 10:30 Welcome and apologies for absence

9/23 Declarations of interest

10/23 10:35 Minutes of the meeting held on 22 September 2023

11/23 10:40 Striving for excellence in customer service

All of us rely on water and sewerage services but not everyone experiences excellent customer service when things go wrong. At this event we’ll be examining what excellent customer service should look like in water through absorbing insights and lessons learned from other utilities and sectors.

We’ll also be drawing upon our own wealth of expertise as well as the Dispute Resolution Ombudsman. They will discuss the complaint trends and common causes and fixes that can prevent problems from escalating. Other guest speakers will also help to spark ideas from the world of energy and complaint resolution.

(1) Wendy Marinos, Head of Consumer Delivery, CCW.
CCW will open the meeting with an overview of recent customer cases and bring the direct experience of the water consumer to the event.

(2) Craig Koch, Head of Insights; Luke Wootton, Director of Client Relationships; Lisa Sweeney, Account Director – Huntswood.
Huntswood will be talking us through the insight in its 2022 Complaints Outlook report, which delved into the emotional impact good and bad customer journeys have on people. They will look at how a positive journey can leave customers feeling valued and being brand advocates. They’ll also give us some insight into their upcoming 2024 Complaints Outlook report.

(3) Judith Turner, Deputy Chief Ombudsman and Natalie Freeman, Relationship Manager
Dispute Resolution Ombudsman (DRO).
DRO provides adjudication and mediation across a wide range of industries. Judith will talk to us about what, in their experience, causes complaints to escalate to this level and what we could learn from other sectors to get them resolved sooner.

(4) Sue Purnell – learnings from the energy sector
“My top 5 tips for addressing poor customer complaints service”. Sue will explore the top issues, and solutions she has developed during her extensive time in the energy sector at SSE.

12/23 12:20 Questions for CCW

To consider any questions from the audience for CCW.

13/23 12:25 Other business

To consider any other items of business.

14/23 next meeting

The next meeting will be at 10:30 on Friday 11 October 2024.

Meeting close – 12:30

Attending:-

Committee: Bev Keogh, Mike Keil, Rob Light, Lisa Tennant, Rhodri Williams (Chair)

CCW: Cath Jones, Lia Moutselou, Alison Townsend, John Vinson

Delegates: as registered

10:30 on Friday 22 September 2023 by video conference

Present:-

Committee:-

• Bev Keogh
• Lisa Tennant
• Rhodri Williams, Chair

CCW:-

• Mike Keil, Senior Director of Policy, Research and Campaigning
• Alison Townsend, Board Secretary

Speakers:-

• Christine Hugh-Jones, CPRW,
• Friends of the Upper Wye
• Helen Lucocq, Bannau Brycheiniog National Park
• Matt Wheeldon, Wessex Water

Delegates:- In addition to the participants set out above there were approximately 15 stakeholders and CCW employees present at the meeting.

1/23 Welcome and apologies for absence

1.1 The Chair welcomed everyone to the meeting and indicated that Welsh/English simultaneous translation was available for those delegates that wanted to participate in Welsh.

1.2 Apologies for absence had been received from Emma Clancy and Rob Light.

2/23 Declarations of interest

2.1 There were no declarations of interest.

3/23 Minutes of the last meeting

3.1 The Committee agreed the minutes of its meeting held on 10 March 2023 as a true record.

4/23 Discussion: Is the water sector making the right choices? Are we making the right choices when it comes to protecting our rivers?

4.1 The Committee Chair gave a brief introduction to the session and explained that Wales and England had adopted different approaches to river protection. The speakers that followed would be exploring those differences and the impact they might have:-

(i) Helen Lucocq, Bannau Brycheiniog National Park
4.2 Helen gave a presentation that provided an overview of the evidence led approach to river health/action adopted in Wales. The Committee heard that a Natural Resources Wales (NRW) compliance report had indicated that action was required to address phosphorous levels in Welsh rivers. In July 2022 a Phosphate summit had taken place to examine the impact of phosphates on Welsh Rivers. Nutrient Management Boards had been established to develop nutrient management plans for each river catchment with the aim of reducing phosphates in rivers to safe levels. The Committee heard about the vision for the River Usk catchment and its communities.

4.3 The Committee discussed issues associated with the presentation including:-

• if there was a recognition within Welsh Government had more powers were needed to progress this work. The Committee note that Welsh Government felt that the Future Generations Act was sufficient for this purpose although there was a counter argument that additional governance and powers were needed to make the required progress;
• if it was likely that the required progress would be made. The Committee heard that, in the case of the River Usk, there was an increasing shared vision to act in the interest of the river. The creation of a consistent governance structure across all catchment areas with statutory responsibility and teeth would drive the required change.

(ii) Matt Wheeldon, Wessex Water

4.4 Matt gave a presentation that examined the importance of data in making the right decisions to protect rivers and how data could be utilised to understand problems. Matt presented a number of case studies that explored how data could be used smartly to solve a problem including real time water quality monitoring at designated bathing sites, event duration monitoring to understand the impact of individual CSOs in order to target investment wisely.

4.5 The Committee discussed issues associated with the presentation including:-

• why the evidence based decision making that was described in the presentation were not being taken. Matt indicated that in many cases the data needed to take evidence based decisions was not available, for example data on CSOs did not measure the impact of spills. In the case of CSOs a move to continuous sampling would drive the right decisions;
• if it would be possible to change the approach to monitoring CSOs to enable improvements to be targeted efficiently. The Committee heard that the Storm Overflow Discharge Reduction Plan was in place and was target (eg number of spills) rather than impact driven. The Committee heard how other water companies were working with Communities to help them understand how they can help reduce the amount of water entering sewers and so reduce CSO spills. Wessex Water was doing similar work including promoting water butts and soakaways but recognised it would take time to change behaviours and in the meantime companies had to meet the targets; and
• how the water sector could better communicate the role that society can play to reduce CSO spills. It was recognised that the narrative that had developed in the media made this difficult and it was suggested that advocates outside of water companies could help promote solutions and speak up to encourage problems to be looked at holistically.

(iii) Christine Hugh-Jones, CPRW, Friends of the Upper Wye

4.6 Christine gave a presentation that looked at the work completed by CPRW to measure the number of chickens in the River Wye catchment in order to model phosphate load in the river where agricultural phosphates were the largest polluter. The Committee also heard about a citizens science project with Cardiff University and the Friends of the Upper Wye that was generating evidence about river health.

4.7 The Committee discussed issues associated with the presentation including:-

• with reference to the work to understand the chicken population in the River Wye catchment, if enough was being done to regulate the industrialisation of farming. The Committee heard that NRW was tightening up on applications for chicken farms and Welsh Government had been lobbied to call in applications for these facilities in Powys. However, the problem was caused by the use of chicken manure on land rather than by the farms themselves.

5/23 Questions for CCW

5.1 There were no questions for CCW.

6/23 Other Business

6.1 There were no other items of business for the Committee.

7/23 Next meeting

7.1 The next meeting of the Committee for Wales would be at 10:30 on Friday 8 March 2024.

The meeting closed at 12:30

10:30, Friday 22 September 2023 videoconference

NOTE: simultaneous Welsh to English translation will be available for this meeting.

1/23 10:30 Welcome and apologies for absence

2/23 Declarations of interest

3/23 10:35 Minutes of the meeting held on 10 March 2023 (can be found below)

4/23 10:40 Is the water sector making the right choices?

Current thinking: Are we making the right choices when it comes to protecting our rivers?

The state of our rivers, streams and coastal waters is under intense scrutiny but what is the current flow of thinking from those leading efforts to improve water quality? Join us this September as we hear from expert speakers on the different approaches being adopted in Wales and England to protect and improve the water environment.

(i) Helen Lucocq – Strategy and Policy Bannau Brycheiniog National Park

Speaking for the River: co-designing solutions for healthy and happy river environments

Action on river health is currently highly contested territory, there is huge public distrust in the ability of statutory bodies to sufficiently bring about the change, leading to a challenging arena in which to plan out solutions. The Welsh Government has chosen to negotiate this contested space by creating a range of nutrient management boards across Welsh riverine SACs. Helen will give an overview of the relative success of this approach using her experiences of leading the Usk Catchment Partnership since its inception in April 2022.

(2) Matt Wheeldon, Head of Wastewater Strategy, Wessex Water

Are we making the right choices when it comes to protecting our rivers?
The environment and public health risks are really complex subjects yet we live in a society where it seems we react to feelings and tweets (or X’s) rather than data and science. Matt will look at some examples of where he thinks we are making strange decisions – and where, in the future, we might look back and wonder why on earth we did that….?

(3) Dr Christine Hugh-Jones, CPRW

What can the public do about our rivers?

The iconic river Wye, flowing from the steep Mid-wales hills, through Herefordshire and back through Welsh Monmouthshire to the Severn Estuary, is a headline favourite now.

This is an eight-year citizen’s journey from a simple investigation into local intensive livestock farming to the current nation-wide emergency of the state of the Wye – and indeed all our rivers

5/23 12:20 Questions for CCW

To consider any questions from the audience for CCW.

6/23 12:25 Other business

To consider any other items of business.

7/23 next meeting

The next meeting will be at 10:30 on Friday 8 March 2024.

Meeting close – 12:30

Attending:-

Committee: Emma Clancy (apologies), Bev Keogh, Rob Light (apologies), Lisa Tennant, Rhodri Williams (Chair)

CCW: Cath Jones, Mike Keil, Lia Moutselou, Alison Townsend, Jon Vinson

Delegates: as registered

10:30 on Friday 10 March 2023 by video conference

Present:

• Emma Clancy
• Bev Keogh
• Rob Light
• Lisa Tennant
• Rhodri Williams, Chair

CCW:

• Mike Keil, Senior Director of Policy, Research and Campaigning
• Lia Moutselou, Senior Leader – Welsh Policy
• Alison Townsend, Board Secretary

Speakers:

• Conor D’Arcy, Money and Mental Health Policy Institute – Head of Research and Policy
• Marya Farag, Diverse Cymru – Mental Health Recovery Practitioner
• Jason Herbert, Trussell Trust –, Financial Inclusion Lead
• Bernadette Kelly, Mind Monmouthshire – Operations Manager
• Nicky Knowles, Public Health Wales – Senior Behavioural Science Specialist
• Will Price, Neath Port Talbot Mind – Money and Me Project Manager
• Manon Roberts, Public Health Wales – Senior Policy Officer
• Janine Shackleton, CCW – Policy Manager (Social Policy)
• Simon Stephens, Mind Cymru – Head of Networks (Wales)

Delegates:- In addition to the participants set out above there were approximately 22 stakeholders and CCW employees present at the meeting.

8/22 Welcome and apologies for absence

8.1 The Chair welcomed everyone to the meeting and indicated that Welsh/English simultaneous translation was available for those delegates that wanted to participate in Welsh.

8.2 There were no apologies for absence.

9/22 Declarations of interest

9.1 There were no declarations of interest.

10/22 Minutes of the last meeting

10.1 The Committee agreed the minutes of its meeting held on 23 September 2022 as a true record.

11/22 Discussion: Money on Your Mind

11.1 The Chair introduced the discussion topic “Money on Your Mind” and explained that the speakers and discussions arising from them would be exploring how the cost of living crisis impacts our mental health, how to break the cycle and the water sector’s role in supporting its customers in this area.

11.2 The Committee initially heard from three speakers:-

Janine Shackleton, CCW Janine gave a brief introduction to the topic, outlined the relationship between financial difficulty and mental health and how the current cost of living crisis was affecting both of these areas. The Committee heard that the water sector currently offered a range of support; key themes within the range was effective support available to help those struggling to pay; improving access to and awareness of the support and having policies and procedures in place that underpin a compassionate response to customers.

Conor D’Arcy, Money and Mental Health Policy Institute Conor gave a brief overview of the Money and Mental Health Policy Institute (MAMH) and went on to explain the links between financial difficulties and increases in mental health difficulties. The importance of good communication that was well timed and sensitive in supporting individuals with mental health problems was emphasised. MAMH were currently running a campaign ‘Bombardment’ that was seeking the introduction of standards/caps in relation to communication.

Manon Roberts/Nicky Knowles, Public Health Wales Manon explored the role that physical health played in supporting those that were suffering poor mental health as a result of the cost of living crisis and how the cost of living crisis was a public health issue. Nicky went on to explain how a behavioural science lens could be utilised to help people during the cost of living crisis. The Committee heard about the COM B (capability/motivation/opportunity – behaviour) model and how it could be used to help people access support.

11.3 The Chair opened a short discussion that included:-

• The level of awareness of the factors underpinning the public health issues arising from the cost of living crisis. The Committee heard that Covid-19 had increased awareness but the challenge was to maintain this for example around the importance of good housing on an individual’s health;
• how widely this the COM-B model was applied/utilised. The Committee noted that the concept was relatively new but was applied across sectors. The Committee noted that CCW had used the model in a recent research project; and
• if MAMH were seeing momentum around its Bombardment campaign. The Board heard that support for action/change often took a long time to materialise and maintaining conversations on this subject in the long term would be key.

11.4 The Committee heard from three further speakers:-

Simon Stephens, Bernadette Kelly, Will Kelly, Mind Cymru The Committee heard about a two initiatives led by Mind Cymru to support mental health in communities. In Monmouthshire Mind had worked to break down barriers and stigma around mental health in the farming community. In Port Talbot Mind was working in partnership to ensuring all its clients maximised the benefits they are entitled to access.

Marya Farag, Diverse Cymru The Committee heard about the work that Diverse Cymru did as a pan equality charity including a mental health support hub that it operated. The Charity had recently seen an increase in the number of people accessing its services who were struggling with their mental health; there was a clear correlation between the cost of living crisis and problems with mental health. Diverse Cymru explained how it was reaching out to communities in their own spaces, for example using places of worship, and breaking down support so that it is accessible to its clients.

Jason Herbert, Trussell Trust The Committee heard about the work carried out by the Trussell Trust and noted that its long term ambition was for the removal of food banks. The Committee noted that around half of those using a food bank lived in a household with a member impacted by mental health difficulties. The Committee heard about the range of support and advice offered at food banks and how water companies could support people including by offering reasonable adjustments for people with mental health challenges and ensuring that Ofwat’s “paying Fair” guidelines around mental health were fully followed.

11.5 The Chair thanked the presenters and opened a discussion that included:-

How often water companies checked if customers were experiencing problems and if there was any best practice around this. There was a recognition that it was now more common for people to not be able to balance their budget and so these checks were now more important;

How water companies can help people to open up and how the work carried out by Mind with farmers could be drawn on in this area. Mind emphasised the length of time it can take to gain trust and explained how they attended livestock markets eventually becoming a familiar face to whom farmers were able to open up to. Mind had worked hard to break down the stigma of mental health and was now seeing farmers referring their peers. The Committee heard how Mind also worked with other organisations in the farming community to raise awareness around mental health and emphasised the role that larger organisations had to train staff in this area. Dwr Cymru Welsh Water indicated that they had mental health champions within their call handling team and that they aimed to make their messaging as clear and simple as possible.

11.6 The Chair brought the discussion to a close and thanked everyone present for joining the meeting and contributing to the discussion where powerful messages had been shared.

12/22 Questions for CCW

12.1 There were no questions for CCW.

13/22 Other Business

13.1 There were no other items of business for the Committee.

14/22 Next meeting

14.1 The next meeting of the Committee for Wales would be at 10:30 on Friday 22 September 2023.

The meeting closed at 12:30